Drafted in the first round out of McNeese State in ‘85, JOE DUMARS enjoyed a 14-year career in the NBA with the Detroit Pistons. He experienced team success as part of two league championship teams, as well as individual honors, first as part of the all-rookie team and later as MVP of the NBA Finals. He was also a four-time All-Defensive first-teamer and a recipient of the J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award and the NBA Sportsmanship Award. Upon his retirement, Dumars moved into the Pistons’ front office as VP/Player Personnel in ‘99. A year later he was named President of Basketball Operations. His off-court moves helped the Pistons capture their first NBA title in 14 years last season. Dumars spoke recently with SportsBusiness Journal New York bureau chief Jerry Kavanagh.
Question: What is your reaction to the incident in the Pacers-Pistons game November 19?
Dumars: I was appalled and disappointed in the actions of the game the other night. This is not what professional sports is meant to represent, and we must hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Q: You are the common thread that runs through the Detroit Pistons’ NBA championship teams. You were a member of the 1989 and 1990 champs, and as President of Basketball Operations, you put together last year’s title team. What in your playing experience has helped you in the front office?
Dumars: The ability to understand the importance of a team top to bottom, and how everything intertwines. Playing for so long allows me to understand that dynamic more than anything else, and how important it is to have the right continuity, the right chemistry and the right people in the right places.
Q: Does the fact that you competed at such a high level yourself give you an advantage in dealing with your players?
Dumars: As a player, I had relationships throughout the organization with the top players on the team as well as with the 12th man, with the trainer and doctors. I think if you’re just a top player and that’s all you know, then sometimes it’s hard for you to identify with other areas that are very important. I was fortunate enough to have great relationships with people at all levels in the organization. And that really helps me a lot.
Q: What has been the most difficult thing about the transition from player to front-office executive?
Dumars: The toughest part always is having to trade players. When you have to pick up the phone and call a guy and say, “We traded you.” For me especially, because the first couple of years of doing this, these were guys who were former teammates. I had just finished playing with them. So that made it extremely tough.
Q: It can’t be easy trying to forecast how young players will turn out.
Dumars: That’s not unique to just myself here in Detroit. That’s basically what you deal with in this industry of sports, trying to predict what young players will become and who they will be as professional athletes. We can put them through all the physical tests and all the different things you need to see from a basketball standpoint. But the emotional maturity, the heart that they need and everything that goes into becoming a great player -— those are the things that you have to sit and wait on.
Q: You told the Washington Post that running the team is far more satisfying than playing. Why?
Dumars: As a player, you drive to the arena and you are concerned about yourself getting taped, your own uniform, your assignments on the floor, your shots. You’re concerned about winning, but first and foremost you’re concerned about yourself as a player, as you should be, doing your job.
In this particular job now, I’m responsible for everything. And so, when it’s your responsibility to bring all that together, you have truly a vested interest in seeing the overall success. For me, that’s why I say it’s much more gratifying to put an organization together and watch it reach the pinnacle.
Q: You are majority owner and CEO of Detroit Technologies Inc., an automotive parts supplier in the Detroit area. Do you have a basic business philosophy? How does it apply to running an NBA team?
Dumars: There are certain disciplines in the automotive industry that you have to adhere to and cannot vary from simply because you are supplying for vehicles that are going to be all over the world. I can’t have my plants shipping parts that have defects and say, “Oh, but they’re coming from Joe Dumars.” That doesn’t fly with GM, Ford and Chrysler, trust me.
I think that the disciplines that I have had to maintain here in the automotive industry have allowed me to self-impose disciplines in running a sports franchise. There are certain rules and regulations and cap restraints that you have to adhere by in the NBA, but you are allowed a little bit more freedom. And if you don’t harness and control that freedom in the NBA in terms of running a team, then you can find yourself in a whole lot of luxury-tax trouble and cap-management problems. So, what it has done is allow me to force self-imposed disciplines throughout the basketball organization.
Q: Is there another executive you most admire and why?
Dumars: I have tremendous respect for a lot of executives out there. Not knowing how they run their organizations internally, all you can do is admire people from afar, and if I can just speak to the sports industry, it certainly appears that for a long time that the San Francisco 49ers knew how to get it done the right way. Any organizations that you see do it for a long period of time, those are the ones that I admire. I admire the fact that JERRY WEST has been so good at this business for so long. He was a great player and he made the transition. Q: Some of your “Bad Boys” teammates have enjoyed success off the court.
Dumars: That was a special group of guys. We were infamously, or famously, referred to as the “Bad Boys,” but I also knew that we were a very bright group of guys. That was something that was lost in the perception of that team. LAIMBEER, ISIAH, SALLEY — they were very bright guys. So, it doesn’t surprise me at all that all of the guys have gone on and had success off the floor.
Q: The Pistons won the NBA title and led the league in attendance for the second year in a row. Sponsorships are up 20% and merchandise sales are at an all-time franchise high. What’s the secret to the success?
Dumars: People — society — like winners. That’s evident throughout the course of American society and American history. People like to be associated with winners. I also think this: It crystallizes it even more when a community has a team that it can identify with, and that’s what’s come together here. Not only are we the world champions, but it is a team that the people here in Detroit truly can identify with. They feel that these guys are blue-collar, hard-working guys, and that these guys hold the values that they have here in the Midwest.
Q: Was that the idea behind the “Goin’ to Work” marketing campaign, for which the Pistons were named to Brandweek magazine’s list of Marketers of the Year?
Dumars: Absolutely. That’s what the people here talk about, getting up and going to work, getting up and getting it done. People make cars here all day long, every day. That is the major industry here in the city and in this region. So people can identify with getting up and going to work. That’s something that they’re born with here, that they’re raised with. When we bring that, when we identify ourselves with that, the people put their arms around that.
Q: With the Red Wings not playing because of the NHL lockout, do you anticipate a further attendance bump? Do you have room for more fans?
Dumars: Well, you know, my question is, “Where are we going to put them.” We’ve been No. 1 in attendance in the league for the last two years. Where you’re going to see the bump is probably in the local TV ratings. We’ve got 22,065 seats here, I think, and I think they’re sold. And so I don’t know where we can put anybody else who wants to come. But I do know that more people can tune in on local stations here, and I think that’s where you are going to see the bump.
Q: Your boss, BILL DAVIDSON, had a good year. He is the first owner to win an NBA and an NHL title in the same year? Do you have a favorite Bill Davidson anecdote?
Dumars: He’s a very successful person and I think that he has the uncanny ability to pick the right people and then step back and allow them to do their jobs. He doesn’t micro-manage. He just wants to know if the right course is being taken, and he allows people to do that.
Q: How do you sustain your excellence, compensate your players and build for the future? Does the salary cap work against long-term success?
Dumars: You have to get some breaks. What I mean is, if you have ultimate success, if you become champions, the only thing that can knock you off that — besides your competition — is having too many free agents come up.
If you control the amount of free agents you have coming up, then you have a chance to sustain it. Fortunately for us, we have RASHEED WALLACE [signed] to a long-term deal, we have RIP HAMILTON, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS — a good portion of our core guys — who are already locked up long-term. That allows us to continue to keep it together. But, I’ll tell you, if all those guys were becoming free agents, then you can’t re-sign them all. That’s what you see in some of the other sports — and in basketball, as well. Too many guys become free agents and then you have to make choices. You can’t keep everybody.
Q: The Nets faced that situation. They signed JASON KIDD and RICHARD JEFFERSON but lost KENYON MARTIN, KERRY KITTLES and LUCIOUS HARRIS.
Dumars: Exactly. They had to make some decisions. I understand, as tough as it is for the fans and sometimes for the media to understand, you’re sitting in that seat, and you’re looking at the numbers and the luxury tax and what’s going on with your organization, and you have to make tough decisions. And that’s why there are only 29 or 30 of these jobs in the world.
Q: JOHN WOODEN has decried the showmanship in sports. But it’s common nowadays to see players preening or calling attention to themselves. Is showtime now an inextricable part of sports?
Dumars: I think it’s accepted a whole lot more now. It’s highlighted a whole lot more now. And so consequently the generation that’s coming behind you is always going to feel like it’s the appropriate thing to do. There was a time that it wasn’t highlighted, wasn’t accepted, so kids didn’t go overboard with it. But as soon as something is accepted, as soon as it is promoted, then that sends a signal to all the young kids that it’s okay to do it. I do believe those are the two reasons why you see so much showboating now.
Q: If you could change one thing about the game, what would it be?
Dumars: I would love to see the coaches out there with the young kids emphasize teamwork rather than highlight one great player. Coaching has to get back to teamwork. I think you’ll see a much better brand of basketball. I really do believe that’s why so many people gravitated to the Pistons through the Finals. They actually saw team basketball for the first time in a long time. We picked up a lot of fans just for the way we played. And I think if young coaches started doing that again, that if kids come up with that in their mind, that that’s how you play and you get rewarded for that, I think that would do wonders for the game.
Q: The Pistons also played hard and intelligently.
Dumars: Exactly, and they played unselfishly. It was great to see. So many coaches from around the world, from Istanbul to Argentina, called and said, “Thank you so much. We never thought we’d see that again in the NBA, and it’s great to see an NBA team play team basketball.”Q: Should the NBA have an age minimum?
Dumars: I have not been a big proponent of an age minimum. But I will say that 99.9% of these kids need to go to college. So many of them are not ready for this. And it’s sad when you see them come and they’re not ready for this world.
Q: You were the 18th player selected in the 1985 draft, which means you were overlooked by 17 teams. That was also the draft that produced KARL MALONE. Who is the most underrated player you played against?
Dumars: Karl and I grew up together in Louisiana. We flew to the draft together. We lived together and worked out together all that summer of the draft. So we have known each other since we were kids. I always ask people this: If you went back and re-did that draft, where would Karl go and where would I go? Karl was the 13th pick that year. I think that you could make the argument that Karl would be the No. 1 pick, or the No. 2 pick, at worst, in that draft.
Q: [NBA Dir of Scouting] MARTY BLAKE is very high on DARKO MILICIC and CARLOS DELFINO, two of the young Pistons. What are the plans for them this season?
Dumars: Delfino is going to be part of the rotation this year, so he’s going to make an immediate impact. Darko Milicic is a long-term investment for us. He came here and worked out for us at 17 years old; we drafted him at 18. I knew he wasn’t ready to play right away. What I’ve said and what he is is a long-term investment, and I’ve said to people, “If you know anything about stocks, you know that you don’t cash in long-term investments until they are ready. Otherwise you don’t get the full maturity of them.” That’s what Darko Milicic is. He’s 19 and playing against arguably the best front-court people in the NBA — ANTONIO MCDYESS, BEN WALLACE, Rasheed Wallace, TAYSHAUN PRINCE — and the kid is getting so much better. We believe that in a year or two he’s really going to be a special player in this league, but right now, he’s kind of an ace in the hole that we’re developing.
Q: MARK CUBAN on “60 Minutes” said, “At some times, you have to bring in fresh ideas to shake things up.” What’s the freshest idea in basketball?
Dumars: That people have accepted the idea that there are great players all over the world. That was such closed thinking for so long. You never saw international players. The fact that people go now from China to Russia to Yugoslavia to Argentina to get players, I think that’s a fresh idea. Just to open your mind, you know, and think outside the box. It’s not just about strictly the college players in the United States. It’s that you can go anywhere in the world and find players, and I think that’s really opened up the NBA. Q: Who’s the shrewdest person in sports business?
Dumars: GEORGE STEINBRENNER. I know some people say that he just writes the big checks for everybody, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to get the right players all the time. Those guys have gotten the right players. That doesn’t sound good this year, the fact that they were up three games [in the ALCS against the Red Sox] and lost. But there have been a lot of other teams that have overpaid players, or paid players a lot of money.
The fact that [the Yankees] are in contention to win it every single year is just amazing to me. And somebody has done a good job in picking the right players.
Q: Who’s the smartest player you’ve seen?
Dumars: It’s got to be MAGIC JOHNSON. He just understood the game, and it was obvious that the game was going in slow motion for him because he could see and do things that were just incredible, especially for his size.
Q: What in basketball would not be missed if it were eliminated?
Dumars: The touch fouls. The game is so physical, and then all of a sudden a touch foul is called. That’s why you see guys saying, “You have got to be kidding!”
Q: What is the best business move you’ve made?
Dumars: Being able to convince Ben Wallace that this was going to be a great place for him. He changed the face of our organization.
Q: Something about you that no one knows?
Dumars: Shattering the jock stereotype. People have a certain perception of what athletes are, and I have always been attracted to some things that are considered totally opposite of athletics. I’m a big fan of PBS and C-Span, for example — things outside the realm of sports. I don’t think people normally view a person in sports as being interested in things like these.
Q: Favorite movie?
Dumars: “Glory.”
Q: Favorite actors?
Dumars: SAMUEL L. JACKSON and DENZEL WASHINGTON
Q: Favorite book?
Dumars: I’m a very avid reader. I am almost finished with SEYMOUR HERSH’s book “Chain of Command,” and I read a lot about current events and personalities. Those types of books are of great interest to me.
Q: Favorite vacation spot?
Dumars: I take 3-4 day trip with my family. We go down to Puerto Rico, Cancun. Mainly we stay in the South America area.
Q: Favorite holiday?
Dumars: Christmas.
Q: Favorite piece of music?
Dumars: I am a huge R&B fan. I kind of like old school, too. I like Earth, Wind and Fire and MARVIN GAYE.
