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| Yankees Manager Joe Torre |
As an 18-year veteran of four NL teams,
JOE TORRE won a batting title and an MVP award but never appeared in a postseason game. As manager of the Braves and the Cardinals, he lost more games than he won, including his only three NLCS games in ’82. Named manager of the Yankees in November ’95, the Brooklyn-born Torre has taken the team to the playoffs every year since then, winning four World Series titles, six pennants and more postseason games than any manager in major league history. He spoke with SportsBusiness Journal New York bureau chief Jerry
Kavanagh on the eve of the ’07 season.
| Date & Place of Birth: 7-18-40 in Brooklyn, New York. |
| Favorite vacation spot: Kapaula, Maui. |
| Favorite author: JOHN WOODEN. |
| Last book read: “Seabiscuit,” by LAURA HILLENBRAND. |
| Favorite quote: Wooden’s “Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.” |
| Favorite actress: SALLY FIELD. |
| Favorite movie: “The Godfather.” |
| Toughest competitor: TIGER WOODS. |
| Pet peeve: Mental mistakes. |
| Extravagance: Spoiling my daughter. |
| Athlete you most enjoy watching: Tiger Woods. |
| Most memorable sports moment: Final out of 1996 World Series. |
| Basic management philosophy: Be prepared and do the best you can. |
| Little-known fact: Carried Olympic torch in Florence in 2005. |
Q: ERNIE ACCORSI had a question for you. He said, “There is nothing tougher in sports than high expectations. The Yankees go into every season and if they don’t win the World Series, it’s considered a failure. Games are torn apart pitch by pitch, but Joe never loses his composure. And he’s of Italian heritage, just like me. It’s not like we’re phlegmatic people. How does he stay so poised?”
Torre: You know, I can’t control what the outside world thinks we do. When we won four World Series in five years, it was sort of characterized as a slam dunk every year: It’s going to happen. You’re going to get there. You’re going to win. No big deal. We swept a couple of World Series in a row. It just looked like it was an easy thing to accomplish. And knowing how much stress you’re under, ... winning when you’re supposed to win is the toughest thing in the world.
Q: You have dealt with high expectations.
Torre: I noticed in 2001, when we went to that World Series against Arizona and lost in Game 7 after having the lead in the top of the ninth inning and I came to Spring Training the following season. I’m signing autographs and a Yankee fan, a gentleman, came down and said, “You’ll do better this year.” I realized then that getting to the ninth inning with a lead in Game 7 of the World Series wasn’t success. It’s just one of those things.
Q: How do you view your job?
Torre: My job is to let the players know how proud of them I am. And I did it again this spring when I basically told them. They won 97 games last year, and there’s nothing I can characterize as a failure because of what happened in the last 2 1/2 games. It certainly doesn’t dampen my enthusiasm and my pride in this ball club in what they accomplished in spite of the obstacles we had to get through.
Q: In a profile on former Washington Post editor BEN BRADLEE, New Yorker editor DAVID REMNICK wrote: “Generalship is not about fighting the battle; it’s about inspiring the enlisted.”
Torre: Yep.
Q: As for his own managerial style, Remnick cited you.
Torre: Oh, really.
Q: He said that Joe Torre “gives players the confidence they need to play their best, then he gets the hell out.”
Torre: There’s no question the game belongs to the players. I know sometimes you’re tempted with all the technology we have at our fingertips, but we can never forget the heartbeat here. There are a lot of statistics that tell you that you shouldn’t do this or you should do that. But if you’re managing, you have a sense of your players. What you may do today, you may not do next month in what seems like the same situation because, maybe personality-wise, that player isn’t in the same place. I think it’s important for a manager to continue to have a feel for the game as opposed to just relying on what the statistics tell you.
Q: What’s the toughest part of the job?
Torre: You try to instill as much confidence in [your players] and make them understand that they’re important in what we do. I think a lot of it takes care of itself. You know, guys want to be starters and they don’t want to know anything from anything else. RAMIRO MENDOZA, who helped us win some World Series, wanted to be a starter. We basically showed him how important he was to us. Even though he wasn’t a starter, he was hugely important to our success. I think that’s my toughest job: to have players who may not understand until you explain it to them how they’re going to help your ball club.
Q: You have said, “You have to make people feel necessary.”
Torre: Yeah. I have 25 players, and not everybody can hit 30 home runs or win 20 games. But there is going to be a time when you’re going to call on somebody, and if you have them feeling like they’re not part of the team, the chances of them coming through for you are not going to be very good.
Q: Can you give me an example?
Torre: Go back to the 2004 championship series against the Red Sox. Sure, the Red Sox beat us four in a row, but if you look at Game 4, we had a one-run lead going to the ninth inning. The first man [KEVIN MILLAR] walks for the Red Sox, and TERRY FRANCONA did a simple thing: He took out Millar and put in a pinch runner, DAVE ROBERTS. And Roberts changed the complexion of that game. He may not have had an at-bat in the series, but he stole second. There’s a guy who may not get a great deal of opportunity to contribute, but he made a difference in the series. You certainly need every single person on that roster, and you’re going to need them at one time or another, especially when you’re playing 162 games, and hopefully beyond that.
Q: The Yankees seem to follow your lead. For the most part, the players go about their jobs with professionalism amid all the distractions.
Torre: What I try to stress to the players is that it’s not really what the fans think or what the media thinks; it’s what you think of each other. To me, basically, you play the game for your teammates. They’re the only ones who know how tough it is to do what you do. Sure, the fans are necessary, but they’re getting away from their own problems. They want to be entertained, and it’s our job to entertain them. It’s their right to boo if they don’t like what they see and cheer if they do. To try to influence that by anything other than the way you play is silly. If you go 0-for-4, you may get booed by the fans. But every one of my guys in the clubhouse has at one time gone 0-for-4. So, I think they understand. And that’s where your support and your lifeline should come from.
Q: When you first managed the Mets in the late 1970s, KEN BOYER, then the Cardinals’ manager, visited you in your office at Shea Stadium. When he saw all the personal photos on the wall, he said, “Wow. You expect to be here for a while?”
Torre: You know, it’s interesting. Every time I’ve taken a managing job -- and that was my first -- that’s the way I approach it. I don’t approach it like I have a two-year contract and wonder what’s going to happen. Because invariably your subconscious is going to take over and you’re going to be affected by it. And you’re going to be influenced by the fact that you may not have a contract for next year. You’ve got to do your job, and do it the best you can, and then when the time comes, those people who make that decision have to make the decision.
Q: You use the phrase “I hang pictures.”
Torre: I’ve used that slogan before. When I go places, I hang pictures. Which means, you know, it’s just like I have this job for life. And that’s the way I approach it. When I go someplace with an organization, they’ve got me lock, stock and barrel. It’s more than just a job to me. I’m loyal. I look to the future. I’m very concerned about the future of an organization even though when that future becomes reality, I’m not a part of the organization. But that has not affected how I do my job.
Q: When you signed as manager of the Yankees, you gave yourself five years. Here you are, 11 years later, with the club’s longest uninterrupted tenure since CASEY STENGEL (1949-60).
Torre: Still there and still enthusiastic about it. I have to credit the players and their respect and the way they handle themselves. You really can judge somebody by how they react to failure and how they are able to respond to it. Because everybody can be a nice guy when things are going well. To me, I think you have to be the same guy, win or lose, because it may not always be your turn.
Q: You have a new instructional video, Joe Torre’s Virtual Baseball Academy. How did that come about?
Torre: I’d been hearing all these horror stories about what goes on in Little League with some of the demands and making winning the only thing that’s important. I wanted to put a video together, not only for the kids but also for the parents and coaches, on what I feel are the tips they can use. It’s how to coach and how to be a parent at Little League and amateur games, and the kids are learning the professional aspect of how to do cutoffs and rundowns, how to play your position. I’m very proud of this product. ROB THOMPSON, who’s on my staff, helped me put the video together. It’s great. I think they make me look a little fatter than I should really look, but that’s okay. They got my big nose right, anyway.
Q: Sometimes it seems that major leaguers could use a course in remedial baseball.
Torre: There’s no question. If people came to Spring Training and watched the Yankees -- who spend the most money and have the highest-profile players -- [they’d see that] we cover everything from soup to nuts, just like the Little Leaguers do. We take nothing for granted because if you have fundamental breakdowns, it’s going to cost you games.
Q: You wrote a book a few years ago, “Ground Rules for Winners.”
Torre: It’s a management book. In it, I tried to stay away from the fact that you have to be born with this talent to be successful. I think it’s a learned behavior and being able to deal with common sense and never forget that it’s all about communication; it’s all about human beings. I tried to stress, “Think small, and big things will happen.”
Q: You cite John Wooden as an influence.
Torre: He is one of my mentors. He talks about teams that may not have won championships but how he’s most proud of them, based on the fact that they have achieved and worked harder than everyone else. If you don’t do things fundamentally sound, in essence you’re giving things away. Ability aside, that’s something people should be able to do: like bunting, turning a double play, being in the right place -- it’s just stuff you need to train at.
Q: Wooden has also said that no one ever overachieves, that we’re all underachievers to one degree or another.
Torre: Everybody says, “We want to win. We want to win.” My boss obviously wants a win, and he doesn’t really want to know why you didn’t win; he just wants to know when’s the next time you’re going to win. You can’t control the winning all the time. You can only be in control of your preparation and your effort. John said, “Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.” That hits home for me.
Q: With all the modern advances we have now in fitness, nutrition and training, does it seem that players, especially pitchers, are hurt more than ever? Or is it that the teams have such an investment in them that they proceed so cautiously?
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| Torre Feels Pitching In Ballparks
Like Yankee Stadium More Stressful |
Torre: I think that’s what it is: the investment. We bring pitchers along very slowly in the minor leagues. I know we pay attention to the number of pitches and innings pitched. Hopefully we’re doing the right things because when you look at teams that have brought pitchers along at 19, 20, 21 years old ... something that’s not talked about is that not only are they pitching more, but they’re pitching under more stress. It takes more out of you when you’re pitching in the sixth or seventh inning at, say, Yankee Stadium or Dodger Stadium or Shea Stadium. I think it puts a lot more pressure on the young arms. But with expansion, and knowing that pitching is the only way you can win ballgames, I think it’s really important to pay attention and make sure that the body is developing at the right rate.
Q: Teams also have more information now.
Torre: I think we’re smarter too in medical technology. There were a lot of pitchers years ago that were probably pitching with things that they’re not pitching with now because, you know, today they stop guys early on when they feel something. Years ago they used to administer that cortisone shot like it was no big deal. And you didn’t have the number of pitchers we have these days who are pitching past 35 years old. That was a real rarity when guys pitched [at] 37, 38 and if they ever got to 40. Now we’ve got guys pitching 38, 39, 40 -- no big deal -- and they’re very effective.
Q: The year you were MVP (1971), FERGUSON JENKINS threw 325 innings and 30 complete games and there were a handful of other pitchers close to 300 innings. Last year, the high was 240.2 innings and six complete games.
Torre: Yeah, well, of course you had someone who came up with that stat that said six innings is a quality start. You rue the day as a manager when somebody said that and made pitchers believe it. I like to believe that pitchers will get you to the eighth inning. But of course pitch count is such a big part of it. And, again, as the guy’s career goes on, you understand also that that pitch count could change. Because as they get older, you pay a little more attention to it. And if you want this guy for the long haul, especially if you’re going into October, I think the best way is to pay attention to pitch count during the whole season.
Q: BOBBY VALENTINE (in Sports Illustrated) said, “After being part of this [Japanese baseball] for three years, I am convinced we do a bad job of coaching in the U.S. for pitchers.”
Torre: It really comes down to the individual pitcher. Some guys can get up on Christmas morning and throw the ball 90 miles an hour. And other guys have to come and go real slow. Very rarely will you see a closer of MARIANO RIVERA’s ability do something for 11 years, and do it so effectively. Normally when you talk about closers, there’s a drop-off somewhere if they’re going to be around that long. Mariano takes care of himself, which is No. 1. And we take care of him because we certainly don’t push the envelope with him.
Q: You were a catcher. Who does more throwing in a game than the catchers? But there’s no pitch count for them.
Torre: (laughing) No. That’s why they call them the tools of ignorance.
Q: What’s your greatest challenge?
Torre: To try to make sure that everyone’s going in the right direction, the same direction. In New York the biggest problem we have is the amount of distractions that take place. I can tell players, “Don’t read the papers. Don’t listen to the radio.” But I know that’s never going to happen. I try to make it as simple as possible for them to understand what we need to accomplish and try to continue to make it reasonable.
Q: For example?
Torre: Back in 2001, we were playing a five-game division series against Oakland. We started at Yankee Stadium and lost the first two games. So now we’re going to Oakland for two games and then have to come back to the Stadium for a Game 5 -- if there is a Game 5. If I go from Yankee Stadium and in my meeting in Oakland say, “Guys, we have to win every game here on out,” I’m not sure that’s the right way. So the way I presented it to my players was, “Guys, we just need to win one game.” Because I know, in a short series especially, one game changes the momentum.
Q: It did in that series.
Torre: We won a very important Game 3, 1-0. MIKE MUSSINA pitched a great game and [DEREK] JETER had the great play at home plate. All of a sudden a little bit of doubt creeps into [Oakland] and we have a little momentum. The next day, the A’s have to make a decision because if they lose, they have to go back to New York. So, they have to bring their suitcases to the park. So, there’s a certain negativity that’s being connected with being ahead at that point. The next day we went out and were a little more aggressive and won the ballgame. Now, all of a sudden, we’re favored to win because we’re going home in Game 5.
Q: And still need to win just one game.
Torre: I try to keep it simple. The most important thing -- you can call it a challenge -- is to make sure you check the temperature of your ball club on a regular basis. And have certain people within the clubhouse, players, that if they see there’s something that needs to be tended to, that they come to you and tell you.
Q: JOHN SCHUERHOLZ said, “Winners encourage innovation, creativity, and passion for their work, for their life.” Where’s the imagination in the game today?
Torre: I think the imagination in the game today is to keep it as simple as possible. With the technology where it is, you always think that the game is different. But the game, the way it’s played, is the same. The way you have success is the same. RUBE WALKER, my first pitching coach, taught me a long time ago when I started managing the Mets in ’77 how important pitching is. We traded [TOM] SEAVER in ’77 and followed that by trading [JON] MATLACK, and all of a sudden we realized we couldn’t get 27 outs.
Q: It’s what makes baseball different.
Torre: Our sport is unlike any other sport. In other sports when you get a lead, you can freeze the ball or the clock will run out. You can’t get the clock running out here until you get 27 outs. I have really emphasized the importance, first of all, of the depth of a pitching staff and, second, the importance of a middle relief guy. Someone who, if you’re behind in a game, can keep it right there, where you have a chance to chip away and get back in it. And of course the toughest part of the game is the last three outs.
Q: If you could change one thing about the game, what would it be?
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| Torre Would Like To See Wild Cards
Have More Of A Disadvantage In Playoffs |
Torre: I’d put the wild-card team at more of a disadvantage as far as the number of home games they would have. Right now, it’s 2-2-1. In other words, they get two home games and the division winner gets three. I don’t think that’s enough of a handicap for the wild-card team or enough of an advantage for the division winner. I’d propose a 2-1-2 format.
Q: RED HOLZMAN said, “The best feeling in the world is to wake up early in the morning when you don’t have to go anywhere.” What’s the best feeling in the world for you?
Torre: An off day after a win. We had an off day last year after we clinched the American League East in Toronto. It was like a glorious day for me. That was phase one of what we needed to accomplish. You had a day to breathe a little bit before you got back into the action again. Any time you can have a day off after a win is enjoyable for me.
Q: Ernie Accorsi said for him it was the plane ride home after a road win.
Torre: Yeah. Football’s a little bit different. They play for that one game a week. In our sport, because you have to continue to do this on an everyday basis, you can’t get too strung out on losses and you can’t get too high on wins. PAT RILEY told me, “Yours is the only sport that you can lose 60 games.” It was good for me to present that to the players just so, you know, you lose a couple of games in a row, you don’t get yourself down in the mouth. This game is a lot about perspective and, as I say, I try to make it as simple and as attainable and realistic as possible for these guys.
